Lisa Eldridge Cinnabar Eyeshadow Palette Review & Swatches
Cinnabar
Lisa Eldridge Cinnabar Eyeshadow Palette ($68.00 for 0.2 oz.) is a new, six-pan palette that included three more matte eyeshadows paired with three more shimmery eyeshadows across a warm-toned, copper color story. It is one of five pre-made options from the recent Lisa Eldridge eyeshadow release, though all six shades can be purchased as pan-only (the best deal, unsurprisingly, is to buy pre-made, and you cannot purchase empty palettes at this time, but I know the brand is considering it in the future after receiving requests).
The brand’s eyeshadow formula has an assortment of finishes, so how they were supposed to perform (and how they performed) did vary from finish to finish, but the important finishes to note are that Luminous has “medium payoff, semi-transparent base” and Top Coat as a “minimal pigment formula,” whereas the other shades are higher coverage with a literally different finish (ranging from soft matte to metallic).
FURTHER READING: Formula Overview for details on general performance and characteristics (like scent).
Top Dupes
- ColourPop Dusk (LE, $4.50) is less shimmery, darker (95% similar).
- Sephora Clay (LE, ) is less shimmery, warmer (95% similar).
- ColourPop Arrow (P, $6.00) is cooler (95% similar).
- Makeup Geek Hocus Pocus (P, $12.00) is more shimmery, cooler (95% similar).
- ColourPop Kinda Bashful (LE, $4.50) is less shimmery, darker (95% similar).
- ColourPop Loyalty (LE, $4.50) is less shimmery, darker (95% similar).
- Viseart Brioche (Spritz) (LE, ) is less shimmery (95% similar).
- Chanel Rouge Brule (128) (LE, $32.00) is cooler (95% similar).
- Pat McGrath Tranquility (LE, $25.00) is less shimmery (95% similar).
- KKW Beauty Miami (LE, ) is less shimmery, warmer (95% similar).
Formula Overview
$68.00/0.2 oz. - $340.00 Per Ounce
The brand has seven different finishes to the eyeshadow formula, so performance depended--to some degree--on the finish. Most shades were pigmented as marketed, blendable, and easy enough to work with, but there were a few that had firmer/stiffer textures that worked better with a dampened brush or a fingertip.
How they were supposed to perform (and how they performed) did vary from finish to finish, but the important finishes to note are that Luminous has "medium payoff, semi-transparent base" and Top Coat as a "minimal pigment formula," whereas the other shades are higher coverage with a literally different finish (ranging from soft matte to metallic).
From the brand:
Seamless Matte - A soft matte texture with a touch of luminosity that practically blends itself. Perfect for adding depth and dimension to the eye. Apply to the socket or lash line for a subtle day look or build for the full smokey effect..
Velvet - A super creamy matte powder paint that grips and adheres beautifully to the skin, with a smoothing finish and even coverage. Can be applied with fingers or a brush.
Luminous - A medium payoff, semi-transparent base that can be applied with a light hand for a wash of luminosity, or with fingertips for an intense, glossy lid top coat effect.
Satin/Metallic - Satin smooth, densely packed soft metallic shine.
Metallic - Full on, glittery molten metallic. Both metallics can be applied with fingers for full opacity, or as a wash with a brush.
Lustre - The densely packed, smooth and extra small pearls gives this texture a soft lustrous, pearly finish.
Top Coat - Multicoloured, sparkling pearls suspended in a transparent base. This minimal pigment formula is great for bringing a touch of light to the inner corner of the eye, or to add subtle extra dimension to the lid as a finishing touch.
In general, the Seamless Matte finish was smooth, velvety, and almost like a lightly cream-based powder formula as the powder seemed to "melt" on my skin and looked more like a soft matte/natural matte finish than true matte. Most shades were semi-opaque to opaque, blendable, and easy to work with. They lasted eight hours on me before fading visibly.
The Velvet formula was slightly more powdery in comparison to the Seamless Matte finish, but they were pigmented, blendable, and easy to work with. They lasted eight hours on me before fading visibly.
The Luminous formula is designed to be semi-transparent and have medium payoff, which was fairly accurate. They had medium to opaque coverage, with more sparkly but had some base coverage. The sparkles were finer and not as intense as in the Lustre finish, so they had a bit of a "glimmer" effect.
Satin/Metallic seemed to be a bit of a variation on Metallic with a smoother sheen. They were typically mostly opaque to opaque and had a shiny finish that wasn't as textured as a true metallic. Metallic had semi-opaque coverage with a brush and more opaque coverage with a brush, as marketed, though I did not feel like they were "full on, glittery molten metallic." They were more of a smooth metallic but not as intense as metallic finishes can be. They lasted eight hours on me before fading visibly.
Lustre was more sparkly but had good emollience so that it adhered with minimal fallout and spread evenly. It was less sparkly compared to the Luminous and Top Coat finishes and had more base coverage. They lasted eight hours on me before fading visibly.
Top Coats were sparkly with sheerer/transparent bases, and it was intended to be a sheerer formula, but they seemed a little drier than ideal so there was light fallout and they applied best with a fingertip. They lasted around eight hours but had light fallout over time.
Browse all of our Lisa Eldridge Eyeshadow Palette swatches.
Ingredients
Cinnabar
PPermanent. $68.00.
Raw Sienna
Raw Sienna (Seamless Matte) is a light, caramel brown with moderate, warm undertones and a matte finish.
- Opaque pigmentation
- Velvety, almost lightly cream-like feel
- Applied evenly and blended out effortlessly
- Long-wearing (8 hours)
FURTHER READING: Formula Overview for details on general performance and characteristics (like scent).
Top Dupes
- MAC Bling Mistress (LE, ) is cooler (95% similar).
- Make Up For Ever M536 Milk Tea (DC, $21.00) is cooler (95% similar).
- Wet 'n' Wild Mythicool Creatures #1 (LE, ) is cooler (95% similar).
- Viseart Warm Mattes #3 (PiP, ) is darker (95% similar).
- Viseart Brioche (Warm Mattes #5) (P, ) is more shimmery, cooler (95% similar).
- ColourPop Hidden Gem (PiP, $4.50) is cooler (90% similar).
- Natasha Denona Aria (PiP, ) is darker, cooler (90% similar).
- MAC Bite the Beat (LE, $17.00) is darker, cooler (90% similar).
- Dior Undress #3 (PiP, ) is cooler (90% similar).
- Marc Jacobs Beauty Seeking (PiP, ) is darker (90% similar).
Formula Overview
$16.00/0.04 oz. - $400.00 Per Ounce
The brand has seven different finishes to the eyeshadow formula, so performance depended--to some degree--on the finish. Most shades were pigmented as marketed, blendable, and easy enough to work with, but there were a few that had firmer/stiffer textures that worked better with a dampened brush or a fingertip.
How they were supposed to perform (and how they performed) did vary from finish to finish, but the important finishes to note are that Luminous has "medium payoff, semi-transparent base" and Top Coat as a "minimal pigment formula," whereas the other shades are higher coverage with a literally different finish (ranging from soft matte to metallic).
In general, the Seamless Matte finish was smooth, velvety, and almost like a lightly cream-based powder formula as the powder seemed to "melt" on my skin and looked more like a soft matte/natural matte finish than true matte. Most shades were semi-opaque to opaque, blendable, and easy to work with. They lasted eight hours on me before fading visibly.
Browse all of our Lisa Eldridge Seamless Matte Eyeshadow swatches.
Ingredients
CALCIUM SODIUM BOROSILICATE · SYNTHETIC FLUORPHLOGOPITE · MICA · LAURYL DIMETHICONE · STEARYL DIMETHICONE · C30-45 ALKYL DIMETHICONE · POLYGLYCERYL-4 CAPRATE · POTASSIUM CETYL PHOSPHATE · POLYGLYCERYL-3 POLYRICINOLEATE · DIMETHICONE · CAPRYLYL GLYCOL · ETHYLHEXYLGLYCERIN · SILICA · POLYGLYCERYL-3 DIISOSTEARATE · PENTAERYTHRITYL TETRA-DI-t-BUTYL HYDROXYHYDROCINNAMATE · TOCOPHEROL · TITANIUM DIOXIDE (CI 77891) · IRON OXIDES (CI 77491) · IRON OXIDES (CI 77492) · IRON OXIDES (CI 77499).
Disclaimer: Ingredient lists are as available by the brand (or retailer) at the time of publishing. Please always check product packaging, if it exists, for the ingredient list applicable to the product you're purchasing, or the brand or retailer's website for the most up-to-date ingredient list.
Raw Sienna
PPermanent. $16.00.
Bronzite
Bronzite (Metallic) is a rich, deeper copper with moderate, warm orange undertones and a moderate, metallic finish.
- Opaque pigmentation
- Smooth to the touch, firm but picked up evenly with a dry brush
- Applied evenly and blended out well, looked “melted” on lid
- Long-wearing (8 hours)
FURTHER READING: Formula Overview for details on general performance and characteristics (like scent).
Top Dupes
- ColourPop Trip Recap (LE, $4.50) is lighter (95% similar).
Formula Overview
$16.00/0.04 oz. - $400.00 Per Ounce
The brand has seven different finishes to the eyeshadow formula, so performance depended--to some degree--on the finish. Most shades were pigmented as marketed, blendable, and easy enough to work with, but there were a few that had firmer/stiffer textures that worked better with a dampened brush or a fingertip.
How they were supposed to perform (and how they performed) did vary from finish to finish, but the important finishes to note are that Luminous has "medium payoff, semi-transparent base" and Top Coat as a "minimal pigment formula," whereas the other shades are higher coverage with a literally different finish (ranging from soft matte to metallic).
Satin/Metallic seemed to be a bit of a variation on Metallic with a smoother sheen. They were typically mostly opaque to opaque and had a shiny finish that wasn't as textured as a true metallic. Metallic had semi-opaque coverage with a brush and more opaque coverage with a brush, as marketed, though I did not feel like they were "full on, glittery molten metallic." They were more of a smooth metallic but not as intense as metallic finishes can be. They lasted eight hours on me before fading visibly.
Browse all of our Lisa Eldridge Metallic Eyeshadow swatches.
Ingredients
MICA · LAURYL DIMETHICONE · BUTYLENE GLYCOL · POLYGLYCERYL-4 CAPRATE · C30-45 ALKYL DIMETHICONE · STEARYL DIMETHICONE · POLYGLYCERYL-3 POLYRICINOLEATE · CETYL PEG/PPG-10/1 DIMETHICONE · HYDROGENATED POLYCYCLOPENTADIENE · ISODODECANE · PENTYLENE GLYCOL · SYNTHETIC FLUORPHLOGOPITE · MICROCRYSTALLINE CELLULOSE · CAPRYLYL GLYCOL · ETHYLHEXYLGLYCERIN · TREHALOSE · POLYGLYCERYL-3 DIISOSTEARATE · HYDROGENATED LECITHIN · GLYCERYL CAPRYLATE · CELLULOSE GUM · SILICA · PENTAERYTHRITYL TETRA-DI-t-BUTYL HYDROXYHYDROCINNAMATE · TOCOPHEROL · TITANIUM DIOXIDE (CI 77891) · IRON OXIDES (CI 77491).
Disclaimer: Ingredient lists are as available by the brand (or retailer) at the time of publishing. Please always check product packaging, if it exists, for the ingredient list applicable to the product you're purchasing, or the brand or retailer's website for the most up-to-date ingredient list.
Bronzite
PPermanent. $16.00.
Fired Earth
Fired Earth (Seamless Matte) is a medium-dark brown with subtle, warm reddish undertones and a semi-matte finish.
- Opaque pigmentation
- Velvety, almost lightly cream-like feel
- Applied evenly and blended out effortlessly
- Long-wearing (8 hours)
FURTHER READING: Formula Overview for details on general performance and characteristics (like scent).
Top Dupes
- Sephora Connect (P, $10.00) is more shimmery (90% similar).
- Tom Ford Beauty Suspicion #4 (PiP, ) is more shimmery, lighter, warmer (90% similar).
- LORAC Dark Mocha (PiP, $19.00) is more shimmery, lighter (90% similar).
- Natasha Denona Layla (140M) (DC, $29.00) is more shimmery (90% similar).
- LORAC Dance 'Til Dawn Eyeshadow #5 (LE, $19.00) is more shimmery, lighter, warmer (90% similar).
- Smashbox Bronze Shimmer (P, $25.00) is more shimmery, warmer (90% similar).
- Wet 'n' Wild Nude Awakening #8 (PiP, ) is more shimmery, lighter (90% similar).
- Sydney Grace Chocolate Bar (P, $6.25) is more shimmery, warmer (90% similar).
- NARS Unbuttoned (LE, $19.00) is more shimmery, lighter (90% similar).
- NABLA Cosmetics Darkroom (PiP, ) is warmer (90% similar).
Formula Overview
$16.00/0.04 oz. - $400.00 Per Ounce
The brand has seven different finishes to the eyeshadow formula, so performance depended--to some degree--on the finish. Most shades were pigmented as marketed, blendable, and easy enough to work with, but there were a few that had firmer/stiffer textures that worked better with a dampened brush or a fingertip.
How they were supposed to perform (and how they performed) did vary from finish to finish, but the important finishes to note are that Luminous has "medium payoff, semi-transparent base" and Top Coat as a "minimal pigment formula," whereas the other shades are higher coverage with a literally different finish (ranging from soft matte to metallic).
In general, the Seamless Matte finish was smooth, velvety, and almost like a lightly cream-based powder formula as the powder seemed to "melt" on my skin and looked more like a soft matte/natural matte finish than true matte. Most shades were semi-opaque to opaque, blendable, and easy to work with. They lasted eight hours on me before fading visibly.
Browse all of our Lisa Eldridge Seamless Matte Eyeshadow swatches.
Ingredients
CALCIUM SODIUM BOROSILICATE · SYNTHETIC FLUORPHLOGOPITE · MICA · LAURYL DIMETHICONE · STEARYL DIMETHICONE · C30-45 ALKYL DIMETHICONE · POLYGLYCERYL-4 CAPRATE · POTASSIUM CETYL PHOSPHATE · POLYGLYCERYL-3 POLYRICINOLEATE · DIMETHICONE · CAPRYLYL GLYCOL · ETHYLHEXYLGLYCERIN · SILICA · POLYGLYCERYL-3 DIISOSTEARATE · PENTAERYTHRITYL TETRA-DI-t-BUTYL HYDROXYHYDROCINNAMATE · TOCOPHEROL · TITANIUM DIOXIDE (CI 77891) · IRON OXIDES (CI 77491) · IRON OXIDES (CI 77492) · IRON OXIDES (CI 77499).
Disclaimer: Ingredient lists are as available by the brand (or retailer) at the time of publishing. Please always check product packaging, if it exists, for the ingredient list applicable to the product you're purchasing, or the brand or retailer's website for the most up-to-date ingredient list.
Fired Earth
PPermanent. $16.00.
Lost Summer
Lost Summer (Metallic) is a slightly muted, medium-dark reddish-copper with warm, rusty red undertones and a soft, metallic sheen.
- Opaque pigmentation
- Smooth to the touch, firm but picked up evenly with a dry brush
- Applied evenly and blended out well, looked “melted” on lid
- Long-wearing (8 hours)
FURTHER READING: Formula Overview for details on general performance and characteristics (like scent).
Top Dupes
- Morphe Polished (PiP, ) is darker (95% similar).
- ColourPop Dancing Dragon (LE, $4.50) is cooler (95% similar).
- Urban Decay Warning (PiP, $19.00) is less shimmery, cooler (95% similar).
- Sydney Grace Warm Weather (DC, $8.00) is more shimmery, lighter (95% similar).
- Urban Decay Heatwave (LE, $19.00) is more shimmery, darker (95% similar).
- Melt Cosmetics Crush (PiP, ) is less shimmery (95% similar).
- Too Faced Wet Kisses (LE, $16.00) is lighter (95% similar).
- Pat McGrath Starlit Copper (LE, $25.00) is more shimmery, darker (95% similar).
- ColourPop Candid (PiP, $4.50) is more shimmery, darker (95% similar).
- ColourPop Pitter Patter (LE, $4.50) is more shimmery (95% similar).
Formula Overview
$16.00/0.04 oz. - $400.00 Per Ounce
The brand has seven different finishes to the eyeshadow formula, so performance depended--to some degree--on the finish. Most shades were pigmented as marketed, blendable, and easy enough to work with, but there were a few that had firmer/stiffer textures that worked better with a dampened brush or a fingertip.
How they were supposed to perform (and how they performed) did vary from finish to finish, but the important finishes to note are that Luminous has "medium payoff, semi-transparent base" and Top Coat as a "minimal pigment formula," whereas the other shades are higher coverage with a literally different finish (ranging from soft matte to metallic).
Satin/Metallic seemed to be a bit of a variation on Metallic with a smoother sheen. They were typically mostly opaque to opaque and had a shiny finish that wasn't as textured as a true metallic. Metallic had semi-opaque coverage with a brush and more opaque coverage with a brush, as marketed, though I did not feel like they were "full on, glittery molten metallic." They were more of a smooth metallic but not as intense as metallic finishes can be. They lasted eight hours on me before fading visibly.
Browse all of our Lisa Eldridge Metallic Eyeshadow swatches.
Ingredients
MICA · BUTYLENE GLYCOL · LAURYL DIMETHICONE · POLYGLYCERYL-4 CAPRATE · C30-45 ALKYL DIMETHICONE · STEARYL DIMETHICONE · POLYGLYCERYL-3 POLYRICINOLEATE · CETYL PEG/PPG-10/1 DIMETHICONE · HYDROGENATED POLYCYCLOPENTADIENE · ISODODECANE · PENTYLENE GLYCOL · SYNTHETIC FLUORPHLOGOPITE · MICROCRYSTALLINE CELLULOSE · CAPRYLYL GLYCOL · ETHYLHEXYLGLYCERIN · POLYGLYCERYL-3 DIISOSTEARATE · GLYCERYL CAPRYLATE · CELLULOSE GUM · SILICA · PENTAERYTHRITYL TETRA-DI-t-BUTYL HYDROXYHYDROCINNAMATE · TOCOPHEROL · TITANIUM DIOXIDE (CI 77891) · IRON OXIDES (CI 77491) · IRON OXIDES (CI 77499).
Disclaimer: Ingredient lists are as available by the brand (or retailer) at the time of publishing. Please always check product packaging, if it exists, for the ingredient list applicable to the product you're purchasing, or the brand or retailer's website for the most up-to-date ingredient list.
Lost Summer
PPermanent. $16.00.
Deep Ochre
Deep Ochre (Velvet) is a richer, medium brown with strong, warm undertones and a semi-matte finish.
- Opaque pigmentation
- Soft, finely-milled, not too powdery
- Applied evenly and blended out effortlessly
- Long-wearing (8 hours)
FURTHER READING: Formula Overview for details on general performance and characteristics (like scent).
Top Dupes
- Sephora Clay (LE, ) is less shimmery, warmer (95% similar).
- ColourPop Kinda Bashful (LE, $4.50) is less shimmery, darker (95% similar).
- ColourPop Dusk (LE, $4.50) is less shimmery, darker (95% similar).
- ColourPop Loyalty (LE, $4.50) is less shimmery, darker (95% similar).
- Viseart Brioche (Spritz) (LE, ) is less shimmery (95% similar).
- Pat McGrath Tranquility (LE, $25.00) is less shimmery (95% similar).
- ColourPop Piece Out (PiP, $4.50) is less shimmery, darker (95% similar).
- KKW Beauty Miami (LE, ) is less shimmery, warmer (95% similar).
- Makeup Atelier Red Ochre #4 (P, ) is less shimmery, darker (95% similar).
- Milani Catch a Tan (PiP, $5.99) is less shimmery (95% similar).
Formula Overview
$16.00/0.04 oz. - $400.00 Per Ounce
The brand has seven different finishes to the eyeshadow formula, so performance depended--to some degree--on the finish. Most shades were pigmented as marketed, blendable, and easy enough to work with, but there were a few that had firmer/stiffer textures that worked better with a dampened brush or a fingertip.
How they were supposed to perform (and how they performed) did vary from finish to finish, but the important finishes to note are that Luminous has "medium payoff, semi-transparent base" and Top Coat as a "minimal pigment formula," whereas the other shades are higher coverage with a literally different finish (ranging from soft matte to metallic).
The Velvet formula was slightly more powdery in comparison to the Seamless Matte finish, but they were pigmented, blendable, and easy to work with. They lasted eight hours on me before fading visibly.
Browse all of our Lisa Eldridge Velvet Eyeshadow swatches.
Ingredients
MICA · DIISOSTEARYL MALATE · CAPRYLIC/CAPRIC TRIGLYCERIDE · CETEARYL ISONONANOATE · SILICA · KAOLIN · ZINC STEARATE · CAPRYLYL GLYCOL · ETHYLHEXYLGLYCERIN · ALUMINA · TOCOPHERYL ACETATE · MALTODEXTRIN · TOCOPHEROL · CARMINE (CI 75470) · TITANIUM DIOXIDE (CI 77891) · IRON OXIDES (CI 77491) · IRON OXIDES (CI 77492) · IRON OXIDES (CI 77499).
Disclaimer: Ingredient lists are as available by the brand (or retailer) at the time of publishing. Please always check product packaging, if it exists, for the ingredient list applicable to the product you're purchasing, or the brand or retailer's website for the most up-to-date ingredient list.
Deep Ochre
PPermanent. $16.00.
Ritual
Ritual (Top Coat)
- Sheer coverage, as marketed
- Lightly emollient to the touch, more loosely pressed, slightly dry in practice
- Light fallout, best applied with fingertip
- Long-wearing (8 hours but some fallout)
FURTHER READING: Formula Overview for details on general performance and characteristics (like scent).
Top Dupes
- ColourPop Frostee (PiP, $4.50) is lighter (95% similar).
- Viseart Fizz (LE, ) is warmer (90% similar).
- Sydney Grace Beach Bum (P, $6.00) is more pigmented (90% similar).
- Laura Mercier Rose Quartz (LE, ) is less shimmery, warmer (90% similar).
- Becca Champagne Toast (LE, ) is warmer (90% similar).
- NARS Icon (DC, $25.00) is warmer (90% similar).
- NABLA Cosmetics Fabric (PiP, ) is warmer (90% similar).
- ColourPop French Vanilla (LE, $4.50) is more shimmery (90% similar).
- Anastasia Zamn (LE, $12.00) is lighter (90% similar).
- Natasha Denona Shine (218M) (PiP, $29.00) is more shimmery (90% similar).
Formula Overview
$16.00/0.04 oz. - $400.00 Per Ounce
The brand has seven different finishes to the eyeshadow formula, so performance depended--to some degree--on the finish. Most shades were pigmented as marketed, blendable, and easy enough to work with, but there were a few that had firmer/stiffer textures that worked better with a dampened brush or a fingertip.
How they were supposed to perform (and how they performed) did vary from finish to finish, but the important finishes to note are that Luminous has "medium payoff, semi-transparent base" and Top Coat as a "minimal pigment formula," whereas the other shades are higher coverage with a literally different finish (ranging from soft matte to metallic).
Top Coats were sparkly with sheerer/transparent bases, and it was intended to be a sheerer formula, but they seemed a little drier than ideal so there was light fallout and they applied best with a fingertip. They lasted around eight hours but had light fallout over time.
Browse all of our Lisa Eldridge Top Coat Eyeshadow swatches.
Ingredients
CALCIUM SODIUM BOROSILICATE · SYNTHETIC FLUORPHLOGOPITE · CAPRYLIC/CAPRIC TRIGLYCERIDE · ZINC STEARATE · CALCIUM ALUMINUM BOROSILICATE · SILICA · DIISOSTEARYL MALATE · SQUALANE · DICALCIUM PHOSPHATE · KAOLIN · CETEARYL ISONONANOATE · MICA · HYDROGENATED STYRENE/ISOPRENE COPOLYMER · CAPRYLYL GLYCOL · ETHYLHEXYLGLYCERIN · TIN OXIDE · TOCOPHERYL ACETATE · PENTAERYTHRITYL TETRA-DI-t-BUTYL HYDROXYHYDROCINNAMATE · TOCOPHEROL · CARMINE (CI 75470) · TITANIUM DIOXIDE (CI 77891) · IRON OXIDES (CI 77491).
Disclaimer: Ingredient lists are as available by the brand (or retailer) at the time of publishing. Please always check product packaging, if it exists, for the ingredient list applicable to the product you're purchasing, or the brand or retailer's website for the most up-to-date ingredient list.
This is a beautiful warm toned neutral palette – and I would buy it if I didn’t have so many dupes to the shimmery shades.
Again, warmer than I like but the quality is pretty fabulous, which is great to see!
Not sure what possessed me to put the shades, yet not the palette, on my WL? Probably due to how high the actual quality is, yet disregarding the fact that I very likely have shades along these lines throughout already! Between ND Bronze Midi, Nude and Biba Mini’s, Viseart Minx, ad nauseam, yeah, a lot!